If you’re working with me, please don’t follow this article’s advice. Please communicate with me with direct language and with a goal to advance our project.
If I have a terrible idea, or am over complicating things, just tell me. And tell me why, and maybe I’ll see it your way, or maybe I’ll convince you the complexity is essential, but we’ll be better for it either way.
andrei_says_ 29 days ago [-]
The possibility for healthy candor is the result of a trusting relationship.
In the absence of trust, one often needs to resort to passive, blameless, less direct language.
So I work on creating the trust and noting where it is impossible so I can adjust.
Who defaults to corporate speak is often an indication to how much they can be trusted.
cam_l 29 days ago [-]
Yeah, nah.
Those who default to corporate speak are those who have no power to speak plainly. Sometimes they have no power because they cannot be trusted. But more often it's because whoever they report to cannot be trusted, and maybe also they don't trust whoever they are speaking to.
And to drill down into this a little further, the process of building trust is one where you each show the other person that the longer term relationship (personal or professional) is more important than any short term gains you might get by using their plain speaking against them. It is harder to do with a power imbalance, because one person isn't risking as much as the other.
29 days ago [-]
anal_reactor 29 days ago [-]
Yes, precisely. I can only be direct with someone if I trust that they won't get mad and will focus on the core of my message.
29 days ago [-]
throw27273 29 days ago [-]
I guess I'm the opposite. If you're working with me, please use nicer and kinder language when talking to me.
whiplash451 29 days ago [-]
It is possible to be nice and direct. Obnoxiousness sometimes hides into convolutions.
ujkiolp 29 days ago [-]
I will defer to your judgment on this as I am not passionate either way and I trust your expertise.
autoexec 29 days ago [-]
The phrases here are for use specifically when people aren't being nice or kind. If someone is being rude to me, the words they use shouldn't be excessively harsh, but I don't want the language being used to increase the risk of my misinterpreting what is really being said.
If you can trust that someone will be direct with you whenever you're annoying them, it means that you don't have to spend time/effort trying to divine some hidden or subtle meaning in every normal/non-confrontational communication they send your way.
myst 29 days ago [-]
Pathetic
dxdm 29 days ago [-]
It's comments like this that remind me to stop scrolling hacker news and do something nice instead - so they're good for something, I guess.
myst 29 days ago [-]
You are welcome, brother.
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
You nailed TLDR.
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
Why are adults behaving worse than little kids?
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
Aren’t you the one who behaves like a little kid when another adult outlined their boundaries but you continue to push your line?
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
Is that some kind of logical argument? You can do that for anything and there is 0 utility.
The point is that little kids experience all kind of much nastier "non-professionall behavior" in school, yet when we say to adult "fuck you" all hell breaks loose. Pathetic.
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
You might want to direct all this pent up frustration into something productive.
Not everything in life is about utility, some people want to just feel nice and don’t deal with your negative energy and that is completely fine.
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
This is not a frustration, I am calling it as it is, emotionless.
At work, it's about utility, not about being nice, looking good, making jokes.
At your home, you can feel nice and demand of others to do so.
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
You advocate for allowing, or even normalizing, saying “fuck you” in the office, that’s anything but emotionless.
> At work, it's about utility, not about being nice, looking good, making jokes.
At best your message sounds rude, at worst you sound like a jerk. And I say that as someone who used to think like you.
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
I am fine with that, call me jerk or rude. I don't care how people perceive me, even when they are not random folks like you.
I care about the job being done correctly, efficiently. I care about the users. I don't care about poor IT developers, who have the worst life can offer (sarcasm). Get some perspective, man!
If you can't take "fuck you" or equivalent while passionately doing something, just move away, let the grown-ups do the thing, don't make this thing about you, your feelings or your morning sugar.
It's this type of prima dona type of engineer that I try to avoid at all cost.
ghostfoxgod 29 days ago [-]
Totally agree with you on this, it was meant to be satirical but I started to realize that there are many places and people to which these type of conversation is really the only medium to communicate, its sad and in an ideal world I would want that people communicate directly without the need of twisting the words, but I am happy that you advocate and appreciate direction communication over something like this.
unsupp0rted 29 days ago [-]
People say that and then get upset by terse replies. Even programmers sometimes, albeit less often.
A lot of the suggestions on "How to professionally say" are not only more polite, but also more helpful than the original knee-jerk reply.
"This is not my problem" -> "I recommend directing this issue to <Name> as they have the proper expertise to best assist you"
squeaky-clean 29 days ago [-]
I'm like this too, and was on a team with another fella like this for a few years. It was great, our other team members thought we absolutely hated each other and didn't understand why we hung out every Friday after work to play board games. It's certainly not a common attitude in the workplace though.
anal_reactor 29 days ago [-]
Eh. My experience is that 99% of people who tell me to be direct eventually get offended because I'm too direct. I've noticed that Americans claim to be laid-back and casual, but in reality they're very formal, it's just that they're not posh. Fortunately, I've developed the skill to communicate both efficiently and professionally, I'm the master of practical corpo speech that gets shit done, but it's so radically different from my natural way of speaking that nobody who only knows me privately believes that I'm even capable of taking part in a work meeting without causing a scandal.
wruza 29 days ago [-]
Even when I do that on HN, it’s usually unappreciated. I doubt that anyone would risk their job in that cool “what I really mean” society you built there.
majkinetor 29 days ago [-]
I don't work with people doing this kind of politically correct BS. I want brutal honesty, even if its missplaced.
ipnon 29 days ago [-]
The maxim of office happiness is "strong relationship > any problem." If you find yourself constantly couching your language like this with someone, it is an "organization smell" that you need to gain more familiarity with that person! Once you have established rapport, and you both feel free to express yourself a little roughly at times, you spend less time reflecting on your communication and more time exchanging the information needed to build.
If you find yourself having to talk like this all the time at work I recommend reading "An Elegant Puzzle" by Will Larson.
jimbob45 29 days ago [-]
That’s nice to say but there’s a dark underbelly of quietly firing people who don’t quite fit the team culture to achieve such strong relationships. Not always and not immediately, but eventually you either have a black sheep slowly bring your team down or you fire them.
Basically the office equivalent of the plot to Hot Fuzz.
thenoblesunfish 29 days ago [-]
True for your immediate team, but if you work at a giant company where people from all over the world can send you messages and emails and meeting invites, you are always going to have to deal with people who you haven't gotten to know well and maybe have never even met!
Thanks, very interesting read about PDI and the cultural differences.
Speaking for myself, I have great interest in living / working in western Europe, namely Netherlands or Denmark, but as someone living in Japan for a decade and appreciating their polite communication and respect for personal boundary, I'm concerned if I would enjoy life in an environment with more straightforward communication.
wodenokoto 29 days ago [-]
It’s not as straight forward as people like to frame it as. There are still impolite and too direct ways of communicating and there are tons of stuff that still needs to be wrapped in blankets and delivered carefully.
ghostfoxgod 29 days ago [-]
Thanks for resharing about this again, if anyone has any feedback then please feel free to share about it.
Thanks for the link! I thought: but where is the actual guide? and then I turned to the comments to find it.
ghostfoxgod 29 days ago [-]
Ah yes, my bad, I should also have mentioned the website link in the project README file as well, just added a "View the website" link in the readme, hope that helps others as well. Thanks for sharing about this.
ChrisArchitect 29 days ago [-]
As noted prior, the source for these (@loewhaley) leans more to a satire, so this isn't completely serious advice I don't think.
userbinator 29 days ago [-]
Definitely not serious --- unless you actually want to sound like a stereotypical bureaucratic corporate drone.
vunderba 29 days ago [-]
That may be, but the linked page gives no indication as such so for somebody (a non-native English speaker for example) genuinely looking for advice on tactful communication between co-workers - this might be doing more harm than good.
Also if this is indeed satire, it's so subtle as to be functionally nonexistent.
Original:
Stop assigning me so many tasks if you want any of them to get done
Alternative:
As my workload is quite heavy, can you help me understand what I should reprioritize to accommodate this new task?
The cynic in me says that this started out as an earnest endeavor but the feedback was so brutal that the author backpedaled and "pivoted" the product with a rebranding as satire.
aragilar 29 days ago [-]
The alternative is definitely satire.
vunderba 29 days ago [-]
How exactly is it satirical? That particular example is actually a pretty normal way to express to a manager that their current load is relatively high but if there was a way to re-prioritize certain tasks then they could possibly get it done.
Satire is generally incisive in some way and uses constructs like exaggeration, irony, etc. in a humorous take.
Here's a few more:
Original: Stop calling me before my workday even starts
Alternative: If you need to contact me, please note that my working hours being at 8 am and 6 pm. Communications received prior to this won’t be seen.
Original: How much does this role pay?
Alternative: Can you share what the overall compensation looks like for this role?
Sorry but if this is satire then it's the dry-wit equivalent of the cinnamon challenge.
GJim 29 days ago [-]
> How exactly is it satirical?
Without wishing to cause offence..... Americans are rather well known for an inability to spot the satire and sarcasm that pervades our conversation here in Blighty.
tayo42 29 days ago [-]
I wish we could just talk directly at work
I really don't understand why people can't be spoken to directly, only in the workplace.
Trying to dance around people's egos is so childish.
defanor 29 days ago [-]
As a satire, it does look amusing: the "professional" versions are about as rude as "unprofessional" ones, but the wording in those makes it more annoying (and perhaps condescending), "adding insult to injury". Perhaps one could also slap random emojis onto those, like in its README's headings, and follow with over the top valedictions, to push it even further.
spacechild1 29 days ago [-]
> the "professional" versions are about as rude as "unprofessional" ones, but the wording in those makes it more annoying
That's exactly what I thought. These "professional" responses are hilariously passive-aggressive. Hats off to the author! I just have the fear that some people will use these unironically...
xnavra50 29 days ago [-]
Please, don't be indirect evasive insincere sugar-coating person.
Tell me the truth.
I will get angry. Then calm down.
Then I will respect you.
Towaway69 29 days ago [-]
The part where "you get angry with me" for being honest hurts me. So how does that fit into the equation? Am I meant to be hurt for doing what you wanted?
Perhaps a better approach would be to skip the "anger" bit and perhaps fast-forward to the "respect" bit. If that's not possible, then don't be surprised when people stop being honest with you. And most certainly don't complain about it.
unsupp0rted 29 days ago [-]
I don't feel like going on the anger journey with you
jofzar 29 days ago [-]
God these are so americanized, I can't imagine saying these things in Australian workplace, they are so de-humanizing corporate bullshit.
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise."
Might as well say "go fuck yourself, eat shit, I was right"
vunderba 29 days ago [-]
I honestly thought you were making that one up, but it's in there.
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise."
I don't know if there needs to be a "country flag" next to each suggestion or something, because no native English speaker from the United States would ever recommend responding like this. There is simply no possible means of delivery in which this line does not come across as incredibly smug and condescending.
rzzzt 29 days ago [-]
Data or a Vulcan in Star Trek could say this without anyone batting an eye.
Towaway69 29 days ago [-]
Hercule Poirot or Sherlock Holmes could also be saying something like this.
bawolff 29 days ago [-]
I'm canadian and we (i assume) have a similar culture as the americans.
These don't feel professional, they feel like a satire of professional-speak. Like they use all the sterotypical words but they dont sound like things someone would actually say. Unless you are pissed at someone and are trying to tell someone to "fuck off" without getting fired. Which i guess is the point of the site, but not how professional communication works.
loloquwowndueo 29 days ago [-]
They were probably ai-generated.
userbinator 29 days ago [-]
American white-collar workers, to be specific; communications among blue-collar workers is usually far more direct.
mrkpdl 29 days ago [-]
This is a pet peeve of mine: the whole first half of the sentence is unnecessary. If something doesn’t come as a surprise then it was predicted.
That said this is satire, and saying it twice does make the joke better.
mierz00 29 days ago [-]
I have heard variations of most of these in corporate Australia.
But this tends to happen between people or teams that don’t know each other.
Stratoscope 29 days ago [-]
They are not Americanized at all.
I've lived in the western US all my life, and worked for many companies large and small.
In my entire life, I have never heard a native speaker of American English talk or write like that, either in a business or personal context.
They do sound like stereotypical Indian business English. No offense to my friends and colleagues from India! It may just be what Americans imagine Indian English sounds like.
bee_rider 29 days ago [-]
Based on some other comments in this thread I think it was originally intended to be satirical but is evolving away from that. Which makes it a bit tricky.
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise." Sounds dickish to this American as well. I think there’s no polite way to say “I told you so.” Maybe something along the lines of “yeah, well, that’s about what we expected, but it was a nice try” could work? It still isn’t great but at least it puts you together on the losing team.
29 days ago [-]
sneak 29 days ago [-]
As means per. Anyone saying “as per” is deliberately trying to sound pompous.
antonvs 29 days ago [-]
> As means per.
Not exactly. You can use each one alone in this context, but they don't quite mean the same thing.
"As predicted" means something like "In the way that was predicted".
"Per my prediction" means "According to my prediction".
As you noted, the combination doesn't really make sense: "In the way that according to". But it's an idiom. People say it just because they've heard others say it.
The Merriam Webster definition for "per" (sense 3) says "according to — often used with as". Like many idioms, it doesn't necessarily make sense if you break it down.
I’ve seen new people come in to my organization and speak this way. It was amazing how they could so easily lose all credibility within four hours and they were toast at that point.
ipsum2 29 days ago [-]
Based on the ambiguity of your comment, it amusingly could mean either the "unprofessional" or the professional version.
NitpickLawyer 29 days ago [-]
> come in to my organization and speak this way.
In my experience the best people to join new teams are the ones who take the time to not state anything for a couple of weeks. Join the meetings, take notes, ask questions, but refrain from stating things. Only after they have a good picture they can start contributing. I like those people.
smcin 29 days ago [-]
Lurk, be an observer, figure out the unwritten rules and power hierarchy, who's in and who's out, don't commit yourself to any cause or person or stance, don't accidentally get sucked into other people's conflicts.
manmal 29 days ago [-]
Why would someone be judged on their first day on the job? Many people are very nervous and not their best version.
GJim 29 days ago [-]
"First impressions count".
Like it or not, this is a truth.
hackable_sand 29 days ago [-]
It's not their first day being a person though.
ipsum2 29 days ago [-]
People are judgmental creatures.
thenoblesunfish 29 days ago [-]
It doesn't really fit in with the format, but often the best way to "say" many of these things is simply to say nothing (quickly). Especially for the ones about demanding your time and attention inappropriately, you are usually not the only person they have asynchronously contacted as they continue trying to solve their problems.
Towaway69 29 days ago [-]
Taking a quote out of context:
> simply to say nothing (quickly)
Love it! Say nothing quickly :) Basically don't even bother with the "I told you so" response ... is my intrepretation.
Springtime 29 days ago [-]
> "You are overcomplicating this"
Tbh I don't think the worst problem here is with stating something is overcomplicated but the directness and variously pointed use of 'you'. People will naturally be more defensive.
Many of the example statements involve this use of 'you' in the same fashion. 'Did you even read my email?', 'If you would have read the whole email you’d know the answer to this'. It's a deliberate use of 'you' like an intensifier.
With minor rephrasing these could just be expressed more passively, for scenarios where one doesn't want an almost completely euphemistic tone.
microtherion 29 days ago [-]
The other problem with "You are overcomplicating this" is the underlying confidence of the speaker that they know more about the problem domain than the addressee. Not infrequently, the addressee has engaged with the problem longer and thus is aware of complications that need to be addressed. It's the situation described in the xkcd "Physicists" episode: https://www.xkcd.com/793/
My preference is to restate this as a question: "Is there any reason why we can't just do <X>?". Sometimes the response I got was: "Hmm, you're right, that had not occurred to me", sometimes it was "Yes, we need to handle <Y> and <Z>".
Stratoscope 29 days ago [-]
You nailed it. (Using "you" in a positive way here, of course.)
Regarding 'Did you even read my email?', the HN guidelines talk about almost this exact phrase:
> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".
Right, just say "I don't think we need that complexity." Explain why (if you can't, ask what you are missing, maybe there is something you don't understand about the requirement). That is straightforward and not phrasing it as a "you" problem.
Although some responses might seem generic or even robotic, sometimes we need to communicate that way. I'm not a fan of this style, but as a developer, I need to use it when talking to people from other departments.
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
I’ll go against the grain here, but I love it.
Don’t use comments in this thread as a benchmark on what people expect from you in the office.
One wrong phrase, at a wrong time, with a wrong person can lead to quite bad consequences.
shegerking2020 29 days ago [-]
Would be cool to have the reverse as well that I can integrate with slack
ghostfoxgod 29 days ago [-]
There is a reverse toggle as well :)
OutOfHere 29 days ago [-]
No matter how things go, stay respectful. Listen first, also more than you speak. Don't jump to conclusions without giving the other side an opportunity to challenge your beliefs.
29 days ago [-]
Quarondeau 29 days ago [-]
> A guide for your daily "professional" interactions
I like how professional is written in quotes.
m463 29 days ago [-]
how to professionally say, in json no less: :)
{
"id": 1,
"question": "You are overcomplicating this",
"answer": "Being mindful of timelines. Let’s concentrate on the initial scope.",
"alternativeAnswers": []
},
{
"id": 2,
"question": "That meeting sounds like a waste of my time",
"answer": "I’m unable to add value to this meeting but I would be happy to review the minutes.",
"alternativeAnswers": []
},
...
globular-toast 29 days ago [-]
Are we confident this is the best solution or are we still looking for alternatives?
throw0101d 29 days ago [-]
A comment from the previous discussion on this:
> You’ll see if you read the comments here that some people are like “the alternatives are bullshit corporate speak and infuriate me”, and some are like “yes, at last, a way to help people be more polite / better communicators”. There’s a smattering of “this is passive aggressive” thrown in.
> One of the broad pitches PDI at work types make is that the lower the PDI, the more direct communications are preferred; the higher, the more ‘diplomatic’ the communications are preferred. My vibe on your list is that it’s just a tad more diplomatic than Silicon Valley wants to be, hence the slight negative ‘passive aggressive’ reactions.
> Some of the lowest PDI countries in the world are Israel, and many Northern European countries, and it fits my experience that in those places additional respect is given for bluntness - as Jan Maas in Ted Lasso says “I’m not rude, I’m Dutch.” As a broad stereotype using the alternate wordings you give would be a sign you are not someone to be respected in that environment.
People here comment, i think rightly, that they prefer directness. I see an other pitfall too. Someone might use the “translation” backwards and end up with the wrong message.
For example the website suggest this “translation”: “Do your job!” -> “ It is my understanding that you are the appropriate person to contact in regards to this. But if there’s is someone better equipped for this let me know.”
Now the problem here is that i routinely send the second and it means what it says. It doesn’t mean what it purports to “translate from”. What it means when i send the second is that the process and the responsibility is unclear. I want my request to be dealt with, but if due to the above mentioned vagueness I found the wrong person to ask I want to be told. The alternative being that i found the wrong person/process and they either silently ignore my request because it is not their problem, or get mad that now they have a new responsibility seemingly dumped on them.
I would not use such language if I know-know that it is your job to help me. For example if my laptop dies I go to IT and ask for their help. That is such a clear cut responsibility that I don’t need to cushion the request. But if I need help with something which rarely comes up, or something where it is not immediately obvious who is responsible then I will add that line. For example if I need someone to register a subdomain for me for the first time in forever that could be IT, or Infra, or Networking. So i would just pick whoever i suspect is the best fit, send a message with my request and end it with some variant of “if you are not the right person please redirect me”. If they read that and think based on this website that I’m just saying “Do your job!” that would confuse the issue and cause friction.
raynr 29 days ago [-]
I played around with the website. I will take the author's advice to not take it seriously.
Many of the changes are active voice to passive voice. It might sound more polite, but in reality comes off as sneering or condescending.
For e.g., if I've already told you something, I usually change communication channels to a more casual one (pick up the phone, pop my head up, walk over, go on a chat channel) and say: "hey, that question you had, it's already addressed in my email, see this bit over here...".
I would not, as the website suggests, say any of this:
- "There seems to be a disconnect here as this information has already been provided."
- "The information has not changed since the last time it was communicated."
- "As indicated prior."
If you did this to me, I would think you are a jerk.
ujkiolp 29 days ago [-]
Someone make a hackernews version of this pls
“I’d encourage everyone to read the full article …” = “did you even read the article?”
“I guess I’m the opposite” = “you’re wrong and I wish I could downvote you to hell”
I miss ngate
wruza 29 days ago [-]
“This is amazing” = “It sort of works for a few trivial cases I could come up with as a non-expert”
tky 29 days ago [-]
This seems less like professional speaking and more like preemptive feelings management.
As a gen-x’er, I find myself having to navigate these waters often as directness is likened to being unnecessarily aggressive, rude, inappropriate, etc.
I would never speak like this and would quickly disabuse others using this style of speech. You’ll do more harm trying to be saccharine than just saying what you mean in an appropriate tone.
satisfice 29 days ago [-]
Yeah, this doesn’t work either as a serious site or as satire.
Somebody wasted a significant amount of their time on this slop.
orliesaurus 29 days ago [-]
I hate this. Sorry.
orliesaurus 29 days ago [-]
and if you want to know the reason - I work in small engineering teams, clear communication is paramount. Being indirect or beating around the bush wastes time, leads to misunderstandings, and erodes trust. We need to be direct and concise to ensure everyone's on the same page and projects stay on track - respectfully of course :)
omayomay 29 days ago [-]
suggesting such "mapping" as if it is should be an industry standard sickens me.
be direct and clear without accusing or putting your emotional baggage in the conversation.
there are no shortcuts or maps that can take you out from the communication maze. know how to be adult & communicate and find your way.
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
Judging by comments in this thread, including yours, we need more websites like these.
29 days ago [-]
scoperesolution 29 days ago [-]
[flagged]
cleandreams 29 days ago [-]
Why the hate? This is good. And very funny too.
It's not just professionalism. It's the challenge of removing irritation from one's communications because that generally doesn't get the best cooperation.
wiseowise 29 days ago [-]
Looking at the downvotes, you must’ve rattled the hive with your comment.
If I have a terrible idea, or am over complicating things, just tell me. And tell me why, and maybe I’ll see it your way, or maybe I’ll convince you the complexity is essential, but we’ll be better for it either way.
In the absence of trust, one often needs to resort to passive, blameless, less direct language.
So I work on creating the trust and noting where it is impossible so I can adjust.
Who defaults to corporate speak is often an indication to how much they can be trusted.
Those who default to corporate speak are those who have no power to speak plainly. Sometimes they have no power because they cannot be trusted. But more often it's because whoever they report to cannot be trusted, and maybe also they don't trust whoever they are speaking to.
And to drill down into this a little further, the process of building trust is one where you each show the other person that the longer term relationship (personal or professional) is more important than any short term gains you might get by using their plain speaking against them. It is harder to do with a power imbalance, because one person isn't risking as much as the other.
If you can trust that someone will be direct with you whenever you're annoying them, it means that you don't have to spend time/effort trying to divine some hidden or subtle meaning in every normal/non-confrontational communication they send your way.
The point is that little kids experience all kind of much nastier "non-professionall behavior" in school, yet when we say to adult "fuck you" all hell breaks loose. Pathetic.
Not everything in life is about utility, some people want to just feel nice and don’t deal with your negative energy and that is completely fine.
At work, it's about utility, not about being nice, looking good, making jokes.
At your home, you can feel nice and demand of others to do so.
> At work, it's about utility, not about being nice, looking good, making jokes.
At best your message sounds rude, at worst you sound like a jerk. And I say that as someone who used to think like you.
I care about the job being done correctly, efficiently. I care about the users. I don't care about poor IT developers, who have the worst life can offer (sarcasm). Get some perspective, man!
If you can't take "fuck you" or equivalent while passionately doing something, just move away, let the grown-ups do the thing, don't make this thing about you, your feelings or your morning sugar.
It's this type of prima dona type of engineer that I try to avoid at all cost.
A lot of the suggestions on "How to professionally say" are not only more polite, but also more helpful than the original knee-jerk reply.
"This is not my problem" -> "I recommend directing this issue to <Name> as they have the proper expertise to best assist you"
If you find yourself having to talk like this all the time at work I recommend reading "An Elegant Puzzle" by Will Larson.
Basically the office equivalent of the plot to Hot Fuzz.
Speaking for myself, I have great interest in living / working in western Europe, namely Netherlands or Denmark, but as someone living in Japan for a decade and appreciating their polite communication and respect for personal boundary, I'm concerned if I would enjoy life in an environment with more straightforward communication.
PS: here's the direct link to the website: https://howtoprofessionallysay.akashrajpurohit.com/
Also if this is indeed satire, it's so subtle as to be functionally nonexistent.
Original: Stop assigning me so many tasks if you want any of them to get done
Alternative: As my workload is quite heavy, can you help me understand what I should reprioritize to accommodate this new task?
The cynic in me says that this started out as an earnest endeavor but the feedback was so brutal that the author backpedaled and "pivoted" the product with a rebranding as satire.
Satire is generally incisive in some way and uses constructs like exaggeration, irony, etc. in a humorous take.
Here's a few more:
Original: Stop calling me before my workday even starts
Alternative: If you need to contact me, please note that my working hours being at 8 am and 6 pm. Communications received prior to this won’t be seen.
Original: How much does this role pay?
Alternative: Can you share what the overall compensation looks like for this role?
Sorry but if this is satire then it's the dry-wit equivalent of the cinnamon challenge.
Without wishing to cause offence..... Americans are rather well known for an inability to spot the satire and sarcasm that pervades our conversation here in Blighty.
I really don't understand why people can't be spoken to directly, only in the workplace.
Trying to dance around people's egos is so childish.
That's exactly what I thought. These "professional" responses are hilariously passive-aggressive. Hats off to the author! I just have the fear that some people will use these unironically...
Perhaps a better approach would be to skip the "anger" bit and perhaps fast-forward to the "respect" bit. If that's not possible, then don't be surprised when people stop being honest with you. And most certainly don't complain about it.
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise."
Might as well say "go fuck yourself, eat shit, I was right"
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise."
I don't know if there needs to be a "country flag" next to each suggestion or something, because no native English speaker from the United States would ever recommend responding like this. There is simply no possible means of delivery in which this line does not come across as incredibly smug and condescending.
These don't feel professional, they feel like a satire of professional-speak. Like they use all the sterotypical words but they dont sound like things someone would actually say. Unless you are pissed at someone and are trying to tell someone to "fuck off" without getting fired. Which i guess is the point of the site, but not how professional communication works.
That said this is satire, and saying it twice does make the joke better.
But this tends to happen between people or teams that don’t know each other.
I've lived in the western US all my life, and worked for many companies large and small.
In my entire life, I have never heard a native speaker of American English talk or write like that, either in a business or personal context.
They do sound like stereotypical Indian business English. No offense to my friends and colleagues from India! It may just be what Americans imagine Indian English sounds like.
"As per my prediction, this outcome does not come as a surprise." Sounds dickish to this American as well. I think there’s no polite way to say “I told you so.” Maybe something along the lines of “yeah, well, that’s about what we expected, but it was a nice try” could work? It still isn’t great but at least it puts you together on the losing team.
Not exactly. You can use each one alone in this context, but they don't quite mean the same thing.
"As predicted" means something like "In the way that was predicted".
"Per my prediction" means "According to my prediction".
As you noted, the combination doesn't really make sense: "In the way that according to". But it's an idiom. People say it just because they've heard others say it.
The Merriam Webster definition for "per" (sense 3) says "according to — often used with as". Like many idioms, it doesn't necessarily make sense if you break it down.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/per
In my experience the best people to join new teams are the ones who take the time to not state anything for a couple of weeks. Join the meetings, take notes, ask questions, but refrain from stating things. Only after they have a good picture they can start contributing. I like those people.
Like it or not, this is a truth.
> simply to say nothing (quickly)
Love it! Say nothing quickly :) Basically don't even bother with the "I told you so" response ... is my intrepretation.
Tbh I don't think the worst problem here is with stating something is overcomplicated but the directness and variously pointed use of 'you'. People will naturally be more defensive.
Many of the example statements involve this use of 'you' in the same fashion. 'Did you even read my email?', 'If you would have read the whole email you’d know the answer to this'. It's a deliberate use of 'you' like an intensifier.
With minor rephrasing these could just be expressed more passively, for scenarios where one doesn't want an almost completely euphemistic tone.
My preference is to restate this as a question: "Is there any reason why we can't just do <X>?". Sometimes the response I got was: "Hmm, you're right, that had not occurred to me", sometimes it was "Yes, we need to handle <Y> and <Z>".
Regarding 'Did you even read my email?', the HN guidelines talk about almost this exact phrase:
> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Don’t use comments in this thread as a benchmark on what people expect from you in the office.
One wrong phrase, at a wrong time, with a wrong person can lead to quite bad consequences.
I like how professional is written in quotes.
> You’ll see if you read the comments here that some people are like “the alternatives are bullshit corporate speak and infuriate me”, and some are like “yes, at last, a way to help people be more polite / better communicators”. There’s a smattering of “this is passive aggressive” thrown in.
> One of the broad pitches PDI at work types make is that the lower the PDI, the more direct communications are preferred; the higher, the more ‘diplomatic’ the communications are preferred. My vibe on your list is that it’s just a tad more diplomatic than Silicon Valley wants to be, hence the slight negative ‘passive aggressive’ reactions.
> Some of the lowest PDI countries in the world are Israel, and many Northern European countries, and it fits my experience that in those places additional respect is given for bluntness - as Jan Maas in Ted Lasso says “I’m not rude, I’m Dutch.” As a broad stereotype using the alternate wordings you give would be a sign you are not someone to be respected in that environment.
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31224996#unv_31226119
For example the website suggest this “translation”: “Do your job!” -> “ It is my understanding that you are the appropriate person to contact in regards to this. But if there’s is someone better equipped for this let me know.”
Now the problem here is that i routinely send the second and it means what it says. It doesn’t mean what it purports to “translate from”. What it means when i send the second is that the process and the responsibility is unclear. I want my request to be dealt with, but if due to the above mentioned vagueness I found the wrong person to ask I want to be told. The alternative being that i found the wrong person/process and they either silently ignore my request because it is not their problem, or get mad that now they have a new responsibility seemingly dumped on them.
I would not use such language if I know-know that it is your job to help me. For example if my laptop dies I go to IT and ask for their help. That is such a clear cut responsibility that I don’t need to cushion the request. But if I need help with something which rarely comes up, or something where it is not immediately obvious who is responsible then I will add that line. For example if I need someone to register a subdomain for me for the first time in forever that could be IT, or Infra, or Networking. So i would just pick whoever i suspect is the best fit, send a message with my request and end it with some variant of “if you are not the right person please redirect me”. If they read that and think based on this website that I’m just saying “Do your job!” that would confuse the issue and cause friction.
Many of the changes are active voice to passive voice. It might sound more polite, but in reality comes off as sneering or condescending.
For e.g., if I've already told you something, I usually change communication channels to a more casual one (pick up the phone, pop my head up, walk over, go on a chat channel) and say: "hey, that question you had, it's already addressed in my email, see this bit over here...".
I would not, as the website suggests, say any of this:
- "There seems to be a disconnect here as this information has already been provided."
- "The information has not changed since the last time it was communicated."
- "As indicated prior."
If you did this to me, I would think you are a jerk.
“I’d encourage everyone to read the full article …” = “did you even read the article?”
“I guess I’m the opposite” = “you’re wrong and I wish I could downvote you to hell”
I miss ngate
As a gen-x’er, I find myself having to navigate these waters often as directness is likened to being unnecessarily aggressive, rude, inappropriate, etc.
I would never speak like this and would quickly disabuse others using this style of speech. You’ll do more harm trying to be saccharine than just saying what you mean in an appropriate tone.
Somebody wasted a significant amount of their time on this slop.
be direct and clear without accusing or putting your emotional baggage in the conversation.
there are no shortcuts or maps that can take you out from the communication maze. know how to be adult & communicate and find your way.
It's not just professionalism. It's the challenge of removing irritation from one's communications because that generally doesn't get the best cooperation.