I still remember vividly a self-made expert explaining to his friend, in the London subway, that "yeah batteries only last 8 years, then you have to swap them out, ergo electric cars are a dumb idea".
But I still trust in people's capacity to digest being utterly wrong — eventually.
theshrike79 12 days ago [-]
I'm hoping that my car's battery only lasts for 7.9 years. It has an 8 year guarantee :D
Then I'd get a new one and my car would be practically new for 8 more years.
dotancohen 10 days ago [-]
You'll more likely get a refurb that fills up to 70% of rated capacity. I own a Tesla and that is Tesla policy.
theshrike79 9 days ago [-]
I don't own a Tesla and it's not Hyundai policy to give refurb stuff.
dotancohen 8 days ago [-]
On the battery too? Good to know.
DAGdug 9 days ago [-]
I actually believe the claim in the study to be true. But it’s also a terrible design - there’s survivorship bias in selecting operational batteries. It’s not clear if you are thinking that much more carefully than the self-made expert, even if you think you are :)
10 days ago [-]
12 days ago [-]
readthenotes1 12 days ago [-]
"But I still trust in people's capacity to digest being utterly wrong — eventually."
It always comes back to diet, doesn't it?
rootusrootus 12 days ago [-]
This isn't really news, just another study confirming past results. And of course it correlates really well with mountains of real world data from places like Teslafi.
clintfred 12 days ago [-]
Using Firefox's built-in translation...
> The key results: In the first approximately 30,000 kilometres, the loss of capacity is accelerated, and the so-called state of health (soH) drops relatively quickly from 100 to around 95 percent. With increasing mileage, real degradation decreases. According to the Electrive portal, Aviloo data from the 7,000 vehicles showed a (average) SoH of around 90 percent at 100,000 kilometres. According to this, the trendline is almost horizontal, between 200,000 and 300,000 kilometres, it is almost stable – and is well above the 70 to 80 percent of the battery guarantee. In fact, it is rather 87 percent.
bdcravens 12 days ago [-]
Seems pretty consistent with ICE engines, where you can expect roughly a 5-10% loss in efficiency once you get over 100k miles
clintfred 12 days ago [-]
I don't think I realized that ICE engines had this kind of degradation. What causes this? Seals and parts loosening as they break in? Some loss of efficiency in the fuel mixing/burning process?
Kon-Peki 12 days ago [-]
I don’t think it’s much besides people becoming more lax on maintenance as the car ages.
Most people are going to adhere to the oil change schedule no matter what. But if the schedule is calling for new spark plugs every 60,000 miles it will almost certainly happen at 60,000 miles but maybe not at 120,000. Instead people will probably wait until something is going wrong enough that a mechanic tells them they have to replace them.
Or things that don’t last forever but don’t have a set replacement schedule. The oxygen sensor, PCV valve, etc. I just replaced the PCV valve for the very first time on a Subaru with 130k miles on it and the mpg jumped by 2-3 immediately.
SoftTalker 10 days ago [-]
Yes. Mainly wear causing loss of compression. So piston rings, valve seals and seats. Also dirt/soot accumulating in air passages, disrupting or eventually blocking air flow, leading to inefficient combustion.
VincentEvans 12 days ago [-]
So basically in other words what this means - is that if battery capacity was over-provisioned by mere 13 percent with battery firmware keeping it essentially hidden - then in effect there would not be any degradation at all.
Night_Thastus 12 days ago [-]
They already over-provision to prevent users from charging the last few percent. That top end is where the most significant degradation happens when charging.
carlhjerpe 12 days ago [-]
Like SSDs, the more expensive the drive the more extra storage cells it's got for the controller to use later
lokimedes 12 days ago [-]
That raises the question og whether they study factored this into their analysis. Don’t carmakers already overprovision?
rootusrootus 11 days ago [-]
Some do, some do not. AFAIK Tesla does not. My Ford Lightning definitely does.
newusertoday 12 days ago [-]
wow firefox has built in translation? i didn't know that.
But I still trust in people's capacity to digest being utterly wrong — eventually.
Then I'd get a new one and my car would be practically new for 8 more years.
It always comes back to diet, doesn't it?
> The key results: In the first approximately 30,000 kilometres, the loss of capacity is accelerated, and the so-called state of health (soH) drops relatively quickly from 100 to around 95 percent. With increasing mileage, real degradation decreases. According to the Electrive portal, Aviloo data from the 7,000 vehicles showed a (average) SoH of around 90 percent at 100,000 kilometres. According to this, the trendline is almost horizontal, between 200,000 and 300,000 kilometres, it is almost stable – and is well above the 70 to 80 percent of the battery guarantee. In fact, it is rather 87 percent.
Most people are going to adhere to the oil change schedule no matter what. But if the schedule is calling for new spark plugs every 60,000 miles it will almost certainly happen at 60,000 miles but maybe not at 120,000. Instead people will probably wait until something is going wrong enough that a mechanic tells them they have to replace them.
Or things that don’t last forever but don’t have a set replacement schedule. The oxygen sensor, PCV valve, etc. I just replaced the PCV valve for the very first time on a Subaru with 130k miles on it and the mpg jumped by 2-3 immediately.